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Re-CompletionService Request: July 25, 2011 [From client] Hello, We have an interlocking metal roof that was installed by [another company] five years ago by the previous owners. The roof leaks in the winter as the result of ice damming in the valleys, and, in the spring, shingles come loose (and have blown off) on the edge of one of the valleys from the ice sliding off. I am tired of dealing with [the other company] and we are wondering if there is any way to repair rather than replace what they did. We have a log house with cathedral ceilings so I suspect we need to try to improve the airflow under the existing metal shingles. I don't know what it looks like between our open ceiling and the metal shingles above (regarding insulation and air flow). There is no venting other than vented soffits (as far as I can tell). Is there anyway to seal the metal shingles so water doesn't flow back up under them? I don't know if any waterproof barrier was used in the valleys and I don't think the roof was installed very well in parts. After talking with the previous owners a couple of years ago, I know they weren't satisfied with the installation but they ended having to relocate before going through a winter and then we bought it. A couple others things to note, a few of the metal shingles were damaged when we were trying to remove the ice from the roof this past winter, and when we have heavy rain, the water comes off the roof before making it to the eaves. I attached a couple pictures of the roof so you can see the design. Based on these pictures, if we had to replace our roof, what would be our best options (ie type of shingles, venting etc) and how could we reduce the potential for ice damming and leaking? How much would you estimate replacing a 1400+ sq ft home roof with different types of materials? Is there a guarantee on the ice damming / leaking after the roof has been replaced? Is there anything else I need to know or can I provide you with more information? [ Client then provided contact information and preferred hours] Inspection: September 30, 2011 GRS sent out a technician to carry out an inspection on the building, to assess what kind of service(s) are necessary to alleviate the client's concerns. They spent four hours on-site, and took photos that assist with the quotation process. October 3, 2011 Quotation Delivered: November 21, 2011
Good evening [Client], Attached is the quotation you requested. It draws out different types of roofing; if going with shingles I highly recommend Malarkey Legacy as we've never had a problem - ever. Also included are links to products, our credentials, lifetime workmanship guarantee, dates of availability, etc. There are three dates this winter available that I will be scheduling in clients to over the next few days. I will hold off doing so until either I hear back from you to be sure we accommodate considering your accommodation of our lack of timeliness. I really do apologize. So, in short, thanks for that and your consideration! [Project Manager]Correspondence: The section below covers some correspondence between the client and our offices. We're showing it here [with personal details redacted] to highlight some important clarifications that come about during roofing project negotiations. This client had some excellent questions to ask, and we were only too happy to fill in the blanks. November 23 - Client
Hello, I have a bunch of questions/concerns: We were wondering what happens when we book a week and then that week turns out to be snowy or really cold or especially if that happens part way through the job? Under what conditions do you not work? Do we have to be there when the work is being done? Our roof already has snow on it and because it is metal, it is very slippery. When our metal roof was being installed, the previous owners said that it rained and the roof was exposed and it caused water staining on our walls. I doubt we will get rain but will snow cause issues if you are part way through the job and it snows? Do you do it in sections so that the roof isn't fully exposed? Would a roof that is installed in the winter be any different in performance or workmanship than a roof installed in warmer temperatures? Will the high shingle cap be adequate for ventilation? And, if it isn't, what happens if we have problems? We are just concerned that we spend all of this money and we end up with a roof that still causes us problems. [ Payment details ] We have company from Nov 29th to Dec 13ish (not sure when they are leaving). So possibly the 13th would work or sometime into the new year? [Client]Nov 23 - Project Manager
Hi [Client] Your re-roofing questions are good. Too many home-owners rush in to a re-roof project on their home to simply find out later that something was missed, mis-represented, or simply should have been discussed in order to bring a successful completion to their re-roofing project. Proper vetting is of course is in the roofing contractors best interest also. This reminds me that our re-roofing quotation templates should have a Re-Roofing FAQS section addressing the questions you've brought forward and others that many homeowners ask. In the interim, I will post this to our roofing blog as a continuation of our previous re-roofing discussions (anonymously) for the benefit of others considering a winter re-roof project, those investigating roof venting and roof or attic condensation issues, and what roofing contractors can realistically guarantee or not when re-roofing a home. With respect to how weather affects the shingle re-roofing process with your home, more specifically in your instance - how winter roofing affects shingle application. Winter weather, especially bitter cold or lots of snow can push our whole company roof crew schedule back, yes. Winter can be a better time to do a re-roof as we don't have to worry about the rain. When re-roofing, the rain is a primary concern. HOWEVER, winter shingle application can only be done with a daily LOW of -18 c or better (applying shingles at temperatures below the shingle manufacturers recommendations can void a shingle warranty and I believe most shingle manufacturers have rule of about -18 c ). The perfect temperature zone for re-roofing shingles or the process of the actual shingle application is -10 to +10c. Shingling is best done when not too cold as shingle nail blowthroughs occur with brittle shingles (leading to shingle blowoffs when high winds come), shingle guns don't fire properly in the extreme cold, and roof nails may not sit flush as ice on the shingles may hinder the nails from sinking in to the shingle and roof deck correcting... and many other problems occur. Not too hot for shingle installation is also good as our roofers won't then wreck the shingles under foot (or boot) with the hot sun. So the idea is to pick a week that is moderate; we prefer late fall, winter, and early spring, but with moderate temperatures preferably between -10 and +10 c . The snow on the roof isn't an issue at all with re-roofing (unless really extreme) as we close up what we roof every day and use proper roof tarps if required at roof connections etc (sections of the roof are done one by one, yes). With respect to your roof venting and/or antic ventilation. Proper roof or attic ventilation is more specifically assessed when the old roof material is removed (intake air at the roof soffit and air exhaust at the roof vents and or ridge venting). If the roof ridge vent allowance at the peak isn't appropriate, our roofers cut back a half or full inch or whatever is required from the roof sheathing that meets at the peak. The truth is that we guarantee or roofing workmanship for the lifetime you own your property (we have proprietary shingle application methods that enable this), HOWEVER, we do see instances where condensation issues in the attic or roof system continue post re-roof. No roofer (or building envelope consultant or engineer) that I have ever met or have roofed with (which are in the many hundreds) know for sure, and no roofer can honestly guarantee that roof or attic condensation will not be a problem after the re-roofing is complete. When our roofers are done re-roofing your roof won't leak, the roof workmanship and roof application methods and specifications are guaranteed be the best you can get in the roofing industry, the roof ventilation will be perfectly to code, and the roof shingles will be a very high quality (referring to the Malarkey Legacy shingles we recommended or a higher grade), however, roof or attic condensation can be caused by a plethora of building envelope scenarios and this is a real consideration. Too many roofers leave potential customers feeling at ease prior to starting a re-roof as it applies to successful resolve toward condensation in the roof or attic to just have the same or worse condensation issues in your home post re-roof. [ Payment information questions answered ] A final note to scheduling your re-roof, we have a lot of flexibility from December 15 to February 15 each season. We can work around your schedule. Thanks again for the great questions. Any more, please let me know. [ Project Manager ]November 23 - Client
Thank you for answering all my questions. So if we find out the house has ventilation problems (continued dripping in the living room) after the new roof is installed, how might that be resolved?November 23 - Curtis
Hi [Client] It's the biggest question with roofing and building envelope issues. Unfortunately, nobody can tell for sure in advance if an issue will occur with condensation. All the materials that go in to your home construction and design affect the scenario. I wish I could be more specific, but I have seen every scenario occur. The principles of proper ventilation will 90% of the time deal with it. But that is 90%. In your case also, I didn't mention, that metal condensates from the underside, so if your underlay wasn't done right, the condensation from the metal would appear inside as a leak. Wish I could be more help. Our blog has some data, but unfortunately, it is hit and miss and if condensation does occur we simply start eliminating possibilities one at a time, starting with ventilation. ThanksNovember 23 - Client
OK. I talked to the husband it is a no go for the next two weeks. So, weather permitting, anytime after mid-December is good. Book it. Have a good evening. [Client]Nov 24 - Curtis
Good morning [Client], Thanks for the order! I appreciate your confidence in us. 1. I am assuming you are going with my recommendation toward the Malarkey Legacy shingle product? If so, need to know what color you would prefer? Malarkey shingle colors are available here; https://malarkeyroofing.com/products Malarkey Roofing Website link; http://www.malarkeyroofing.com/ 2. Scheduling. What we will do is watch our scheduling and the weather for an opening after December 15. When we have an opening and weather looks to be suitable, I will notify you. One consideration is that between December 15 and the first week of January, much of our operation shuts down, but that doesn't mean it completely shuts down ... so we can assess as we get in to mid-December. 3. I have copied this (along with the quotation as attached and the various comments below in our email communications) to [GRS Employee] who is the senior Journeyman from our office. He is responsible for inspection of the crew's work to ensure our standards of application are met (which can be found at https://www.grscanadainc.com/Roof_Replacement_Home_Guide.html). He can be reached at [phone number] or at [email address] should you ever require. As a side note, I've also copied to [Another Employee] of our office so that he is aware of the direction you are taking (he was the investigating technician) and so [First Employee] knows to defer to [Second Employee] for any pre-installation questions he may have as [Second Employee] was on site previously. 4. I have also copied this to our administration office, they may or may not contact you prior to start for arrangements concerning payment. If you wish to talk to her before, you can get her toll free at +1.877.497.3528 or firstname.lastname@example.org. Thanks again. [Project Manager]November 24 - Client
Yes, Malarkey Legacy [shingles], Which colour shingle is on the roof of the first page of the PDF? I am leaning toward the natural or weathered wood. I like the colour of our current roof but can’t figure out which would be closest to the Malarkey shingle. Do you have any picture of roofs done in either of the natural or weather shingle? It is hard to tell based on a small square. [Client]Nov 25 - Project Manager
Good morning [Client], What I will do is have our [First Employee] stop by our supplier sometime prior to starting work and he will drop off samples for you of the shingles and perhaps proper photos. We do have photos on file, but they're hard to represent colors properly too. Thanks [Project Manager]January 4, 2012 - Client
Hello [Project Manager], [First Employee] stopped by on Monday and we decided to go with the Natural Wood Malarkey shingle. So what kind of time frame are we looking at? The second half of February is out because we have company but other than that we are open. Weather is good now and there isn't much snow on the roof. The longer we wait, the more the snow will accumulate making the job harder. [First Employee] mentioned that you will be on vacation soon - will that affect the start of the job? [Client]January 4, 2012 - Project Manager
Hi [Client] Thanks for the note, on our way to sunny Mexico right now. We have you booked for Jan 18. When I get back next week, I was planning to send over official paperwork. If we run in to bad weather we'll just do it as we can in-between and pick our days. See you soon! [Project Manager]January 16, 2012 - Client
Well, it looks like it finally decided to be winter right when the roof was going to be replaced. Way too cold now. Please let me know when the next available date is. [Client]January 16 - Project Manager
Good morning [Client], We have you in for when it warms a bit. We're hoping before end of month, but we'll see what mother nature has in store. Nonetheless, as soon as it warms you're first on deck. [Project Manager]January 19 - Client
Next week is looking much better. How many days might this take and how many people would be on the crew? I mentioned to Eric that we have a chimney on the east end of the house (farthest from the driveway) that needs to be removed since it is not in use. He said that it wouldn't be a problem to pull it out and patch up the hole. [Client]January 20 - Project Manager
Good morning [Client] Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday, I was out of the office for the day. With reference to next week, we are waiting on mother nature... the forecasts can be "off", so to speak, at times. Nonetheless, we are waiting for conditions of "-5 degree as a day time low" ideally, and we need a number of days (3-5) of those conditions. The manufacturers will warranty at -18, however, the truth is that anything below -5 as a day-time low isn't in your best interest. The reason being is that at night the shingles in the bundles freeze together and with-out -5 WITH SUN the shingles just don't come apart right when we take them out of the bundles and they can be brittle. Anyway, I could go on and on about the nailers and frost in hoses and nails sinking properly and nails blowing through shingles and the sun affecting the sealing strip in shingles etc etc. Ultimately it is your call as we can install to -18, but truthfully it isn't in your best interest. The idea in the winter is to get an appropriate break and get the roof off and on properly before spring thaw kicks in, that's our target. So we book only a number of roofs to do that (get them off and on when it warms but not so warm that spring thaw has started). We have you in the queue with two other in Edmonton area right when those temps are perfect so I am comfortable committing to us getting your roof on before spring thaw. Anyway, you think about that and let me know if you want to go with our "perfect" scenario or you simply want us to get at it in not ideal installation weather. Hope that made sense [Project Manager]January 20 - Client
Definitely want the perfect scenario.Service Update: March 3, 2012
Hi [First Employee], [The Client] just called about ridge venting and some issue toward supply not working to spec. Can you call them immediately at [phone number], please? Thanks [Project Manager]Completion Report: March 13, 2012
[Employee] has finished all the repairs at [Client]'s house. I will be sending all the photos including the photo of the ice under b-vent. On the roof he completed:Deficiency List: March 14, 2012 The client provided feedback on the repair, and had noted some areas that were not, in fact, completed to GRS' exacting precision. There were small gaps where the trim meets at the peak of the roof. On the deck side of the house, there is a shingle with what appears to be a slight lump underneath; the underlay will have to be re-examined. With respect to the ice and water trim, some is sticking out from underneath the roof edge (just needs to be cut away and disposed of). Re-Completion: March 15, 2012 We sent out another of our technicians to take care of the deficiencies listed above. All of the concerns were addressed, fixed, and/or otherwise cleaned up. Below are photos that were taken both before and after the job's commencement, but were unfiled with time stamps (exact dates unknown). They are present to illustrate the prior condition of the roof. CODE: 26 Contact Us Call our 24 hour emergency roof repair at 1.780.424.7663. Mail to: 3428 99 Street NW Edmonton, Alberta T6E-5X5. We service all of Alberta including Edmonton, Stony Plain, Spruce Grove, Fort Saskatchewan, St Albert, Sherwood Park, Leduc, Nisku, Beaumont, Lac La Biche, Grande Prairie, High Level, Westlock, Slave Lake, Edson, Drayton Valley, Devon, Camrose, Wetaskiwin, Tofield, Lamont, Morinville, Vegreville, Millet, Calmar, Evansburg, Redwater, Onaway, Viking, Athabasca, High Prairie, Valleyview, Fairview, Peace River, Whitecourt, Mayerthorpe and many more rural areas and towns.
I believe that this job is done to the standards of General Roofing Systems. If there's anything else please contact me.
- Valleys have the ice and water shield installed.
- All of the caulking is done.
- All vents have ice and water shield installed.
- All nailing is okay (the roofer will need to work a bit further)
- All rows of shingles are dropped off (roofer will need to work on them)
- The ridge venting is installed
- The clean up is done
- The pallets have been picked up